Posts: 72. This means keep track of weight coming off and going on. On the a street stock what size spring would be better to run on the rear. Vintage/Classic/Historical Engine Tech, 3V Performance Engine & Valve train Development, Race Cars & Parts - For Sale or Wanted, Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, Re: Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/r ss.326355/. The upper BJ is trying to be forced in a forward direction and the lower BJ is trying to be forced in a rearward direction. By Bob Bolles, Circle Track Magazine . And your choice of aluminum or steel fenders doors and quarters. Another way to gain bite that we have described in the past involves the use of a spring-loaded pull-bar that allows a certain amount of rear end rotation. The left side suspension usually is designed with about half the angle of the right side in a conventional design. Here is an explanation of balance related to the dynamics of the race car. Ackermann is easily checked by using a laser system or strings. It is this sliding scale situation that determines the stiffness of your front end. Any angle up hill to the right rear will cause upward force on both tires and unload both tires. Yes, I get inquiries about how to apply the BBSS setups to both of these types of cars. Page 1 of 1. We have done a lot with the front roll center and cant wait to see how it does, after that, i found some legal stuff for the rear that we will try. On a three-link rear suspension you should have the front of your right-side control arm higher than the rear mount by 1/3 of the total amount it will travel in the turns. It's that time of year again when gardeners all over the world are planning what to grow in their gardens. The driveshaft doesn't know which view these angles are resulting from, just that they are equal and opposite. Track Tools. That energy has to go somewhere, (1st & 2nd law of thermodynamics) so it can either go into tires causing them to heat up lose grip and wear faster, or you can try to take up some of that heat up into the brakes where it will be dissipated on exit and down the straight. The Metric four-link suspension design is a bit different than most other rear suspensions. How to Open the Setups. RAceman. If the car feels tight on corner entry, raise the left track bar. Disconnect the sway bar and zero (unload) it. Stretch Film Division. Here is a synopsis of how camber effects the handling of the chassis: Here are the diameter choices of the bar: The grill tape option is located under the drivetrain/aero tab within the garage menu. But there is still some changes to be made from track to track. If your vehicle of choice utilizes a McPherson strut style front suspension, then your 2 pivot points would be . First of all, the design is intended to solve several problems. Leaf springs are important when towing heavy objects.Bear with me here, this digs a little deeper into how leaf spring suspensions work. Unfortunately, most rule books that I have dealt with are very vague. JEFFREYS Fabrication is coming soon!!! March 27, 2015. Plan to win in a repeatable fashion. Cars that don't turn well are very likely to have poor MC designs. How about just adding a panhard bar to the stock four-link setup? With setups that use a very stiff right rear spring, the angle of the right trailing arm will need to be less than when using a conventional softer spring because that corner will move less. Good luck and keep the rubber side down!!! Im lifting early and using zero brake. The more third link angle you have, the more antisquat there is. It costs just as much money, if not more, to run poorly, so you might as well learn to run well. We even did pretty good with it in the THR LLM class back in `99. jp. This chassis utilizes our very popular double slotted strut style front clip. Good luck. Send your request to bob.bolles@sorc.com. 321. The MC should always be somewhere close to the centerline (i.e., midway between the tire contact patches). Dwarf Mr Snow, Fred's Tie Dye, Saucy Mary, Sweet Scarlet, Kangaroo Paw Green, Idaho Gem and Banana Toes are just a few of the varieties one gardener is growing in a 4x8 bed of "bulletproof" tomatoes. I always knew that chassis set up had to be based on some proven theory, but I could never find a book that could tell me what that theory was. If the car feels tight on corner exit, raise the right track bar. by doing this and the use of lowering blocks the rear roll center can be changed, I know it's not a quick adjustment but it is an adjustment the the metric car in the stock. Its hard to say without more information. I don't get too many reports of continual, repeated wins and successes. Additionally, modern pennies are only 2.5% copper, so older pennies should be used instead for better results. 5. The 1st thing we will need to do is look at the car, where are we with your current setup and how far can we go with that setup. 4. I think if I had the opportunity I could make the 4-link work on asphalt using a similar set-up that I used on dirt. If we have a top view difference in alignment between the transmission output shaft and the pinion shaft and they are parallel, then the angle to the driveshaft created by that misalignment might be sufficient to provide the needed angular differential needed for loading the U-joint bearings and reducing negative harmonics. . Bite Off The Corners A Setup To-Do List to Get You Started . Brake bias influence can be easily determined by entering the corner with medium to heavy braking first and then entering with light braking to see if there is a difference. My name is Rodney Arndt, I have an associates degree in automotive technology. The dynamics of the moment center and the effects of camber change have been explained before. I'm a former NASCAR short track driver and league administrator for SASCAR. Cra bomber, turbo ,etc. We do not want to try to solve turn entry problems with the brake bias, we only need to make sure the car stays neutral in handling when the brakes are applied. If the same stiffly shocked corner is in rebound, less of the overall load will be retained by that corner, and its diagonal corner as well, during the rebound cycle only. Jul 25, 2011. The less fuel in the tank the tighter the chassis will become. Over the years I have had lots of feedback that most these concepts and ideas work great on dirt, on front wheel drive mini stocks, on almost any street stock, production typerace car. A trend must prove itself in order to stand the test of time. If the car is tight under throttle, or driving off the left rear, invert the spring perch offset adjustment procedure above. Am I correct that you would reattach the sway bar after making the perch adjustments? I guess the leaf cars could be allowed adjustable shackles in the rear to even that one out, sort-of. Got protested and is now in limbo! We also need to establish a ride height that will both be appropriate for our type of racing and also help to establish the best roll center height. The right-side tire contact patches will also need to be inline with the right front tire pointed straight ahead. ford 9' rear end w/disc brakes, stocks, springs, gauges just add motor and transmission and go racing. If you find that the left rear is the coolest tire on the car, then you have a setup balance problem where the rear is too stiff. That was the only time that car was really fun to drive even though I opted not to go to tech because it was not legal for THR rules. Divide that in half for the center of the wheel. The rear roll center is certainly part of the problem. I ran a street stock/sportsman from 1995 to 2000 with a metric frame. I can agree to use a LR instead RR. A spring split of 250-lb/in spring in the left rear and 200-lb/in spring in the right rear is common. Setup Tips: These tips are for an independent a-arm front suspension and 3-link rear suspension type of car, but may apply to other types of suspensions as well. Setup Tools. Hobby Stock - (USRA/IMCA TYPE) Street Stock - (WISSOTA TYPE) Stock Car - (USRA/IMCA TYPE) I better get the torch and welder dusted off! Antidive helps prevent sudden nose dive on entry by mechanically resisting the downward motion of the suspension using the rotational forces created through braking. We showed you the 3-link rear end last week. In Stock. I had a very experienced racer come out and help us one time and he said the problem he saw with the car is the rear end looked as if it was shifting to the left by a couple inches. Always try to start with the track bars first. ! I would run either the pure stock or street stock class. Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt. Also has a anti roll bar added to it. Dec 24, 2005 at 5:33am. The front end takes time and effort to get the bump steer and caster gain within a tolerable amount, you have to move the upper and lower control arm mounts, cut the left side lower control arm, use special length ball joints, etc, etc. Dirt Late Model Racing News and Driver info across the Mid Atlantic. 358091 FAB IMPALA, NO UPPER MOUNTS. They have all kinds of articles and how to write ups on what to do with a metric four link to make it work better, how to use things like bump stops, progressive springs, gas shocks, sliding ballast, to make a car faster and more drivable. Some people add preload to the sway bar to make cross weight adjustments. Go here but read before you post..lol. Contact Us. I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience circle track racing a mopar unibody. The front geometry on a metric car isnt as good as a Camaro though. I'm thinking about building a B Body for dirt track racing. Motorcycle. -3 . 03 0@ 34-.=- 2 ++(+'o $ (&%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq ,&%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qq (,%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq ,,%q qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qq You must try to determine if your setup is balanced and then if not, make the necessary changes to bring it into a balanced state. Of the other two, camber is well-recognized, but for all intents and purposes, the least-understood . What do you think Nick? jp. LOL. Adjust all four spring perch offsets to change the cross weight. We even did pretty good with it in the THR LLM class back in `99. I understand not wanting to share to much especially if your a racer, but who or where else can I gain info on this? Don't get me wrong, I like our leaf car for obvious reasons, but it would be cool to see a bunch of metrics out there running well also. If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. The moment center must be located correctly for your type of racing and the cambers must be set, again toward your setup style and track conditions. The car would have a complete roll cage with stock type suspension. 9. For the most accurate Setup and Tech Support, download our Scale & Setup Sheet, fill it out with as much information as you can and then fax it to us at 402-228-4796. Antidive and antisquat are mechanical influences that can help our transitional phases of entry and exit. Balance is spoken of in all types of motorsports these days, even F1. Flat Tracks: On an asphalt car, utilizing slightly stiffer rebound on the left side, while softening the rebound on the right side, will generally enhance the handling of the car. They should be matched up within a couple of degrees of average temperature across the tread. It depends on your rule book and it's enforcement. Would a 11 in be better or a 13 in spring in back be better. We have been softening those setups over the years, but never intended to go to coil bind or bump rubbers. Sep 1, 2009. Street Stocks Dur-A-Flex Racing. Street Stock Setups. Truck99August 22, 2005 in Grease Monkey Hangout. "One bad person can ruin it for everyone and that is just disrespectful", The If you could slide the MC to the right, or outside of the turn for you road racers, the front end will get stiffer. #1. Your close on the springs if the car is 3200. I can understand not allowing alot of stuff from a cost perspective but weight jacks seem to be one of those things that are cheap to begin with and you end up spending 3 times as much money and alot more time trying to get the same result while complying with rules that don't allow them. Then should I use brakes more? When you enter the corner you are going to slow down. It was either cheat or park it until the rules change. Taipei, Taiwan. The images used are taken from the iRacing Super Late Model setup screen. With so many different combinations of possibilities it leaves us with literally thousands of possible chassis combinations to choose from. Please Login or Register 03/04/23 at 12:37am, what front springs to start with and whats a good baseline for wieghts the minum is 3100 what do i need for leftside,rear,and cross. Looking forward to the tips for Dirt Oval racing! As the rear end rotates on acceleration, the left wheel moves rearward more so than the right wheel, creating a slight amount of rear steer to the left. The setup we choose needs to be arranged so that the dynamics are balanced between the front and the rear suspensions. Is this why Im wearing out the right front? First, we don't want to restrict the movement of the arms too much. Welcome to STLRacing.com, home of St. Louis Motor Racing News. Includes: Performance handling basics, chassis & roll cage fabrication, front suspension alignment, changing the roll center and camber curve, rear suspensions, springs and shocks, tires (bias and radial), stagger, gearing, basic chassis set-up for asphalt and dirt tracks, weight adjustments, tuning the car to . . Try one or two click on each spring perch shown above to raise the cross weight. So, again this year as in past years, we will present what is admittedly the formula for success related more for the conventional and what we call soft conventional setups mainly because these are the ones that produce more consistency and do win races. The car is loose mid to exit with not foward drive. I built the car not the engine . We were allowed weight jacks and after market uppers in front also. The car will turn better and we will have more bite off the corners. also get to the scales whenever you can. Long gone are the days of saying that the MC is not important. Each suspension system desires to do its own thing when lateral forces are introduced from the car going through the turns. competition. 1 being the most important. That extra effort is what separates the front runners from the rest of the field. The cars with the stock metric 4 link all seem to go into a four wheel drift and are always loose on exit. JP is that the car you wadded up and broke your leg? The Metric four-link Roll Center The metric roll center is quite high compared to other rear suspension systems, such as the three-link with Panhard bar, the leaf spring system, and the Watts link. My truck has weight jacks and a stock 4 link. Sort by. 122. I'd think that without them you'd at the very least need to allow some sort of spring adjuster. Make small adjustments, about one half of one percent. Yeah! A three link with panhard bar using the stock lower mounts works fine. In order to slow you must lose (kinetic) energy. Pavement Modifieds. Why Lower The Rear RC? Its a whole lot more driver and a whole lot less setup on dirt. On a metric four-link car, the four control arms determine the rear moment center height too. Once you've made the entry to the corner balanced, check to see if the adjuster is centered. I think I'll make a proposal along these lines. You can use your stock metric pitman arm and . This is our 1988 Monte Carlo Stock Appearing Body. Ive read alot of stuff, some of it usefull some of it crazy. The artistry comes in when you actually do it. At some point, we take in enough information to allow us to avoid the mistakes of the past and get ahead of the curve in setting up our asphalt cars. LOL. Strictly asphalt street stocks and parts. Christjohn has been racing street stocks for 13 years and has amassed 74 feature wins and 4 track championships. Most Metric cars I've evaluated have rear RC's up around 14.5 inches off the ground. There are ways to do that without changing the handling at other points around the racetrack. Since mustangs have a similar rear suspension would these same mods work? The upper IC is to the rear of the rearend and the IC for the lower links is well in front of the rearend. Christjohn likes to get to the track early and get his car set up so he can watch the races. What Are Russet Mites? I don't really encourage that method. The Camaro's we were running against could have weight jacks and tubular uppers as well so it was pretty even. To sort of act as a pull bar? On a metric four-link car, the four control arms determine the rear moment center height too. I see the times at CCMS are identical, THR the truck .5 sec quicker. Shown above is a gaming expo fair in Europe that held a contest for the best gamer team in a newly released 1st shooter game Create New Wish List . If it is too far to one side, then changes to the brake master cylinder sizes and/or the pad compounds might need to be made in order to maintain a centered-bias adjuster. I ran a metric street stock at HMP for a number of years and was definitely not at a disadvantage. With all the negative BS that tends to permiate these boards these days, I thought maybe we could talk about something real and constructive. Since the spring promotes rebound and resists compression as inherent properties, then the shock rate of compression control must be less than the rate of rebound control. by RonL Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:36 am, Post in Exotic Race Cars on a Real RaceTrack, Copyright 2000-2023 It may take a few test sessions to help you determine your balance, but if you observe the indicators correctly, then tuning the car for dynamic balance can be done. Port City Racecars Road Race Chassis is a purpose-built racing machine. Be careful not to overdue that. Turn the wheels to the left all the way, make a mark with the steering wheel, now count the turns it takes to go to full lock the opposite direction. The settings, including the moment center location, really do dictate how all of the other parts and pieces of setup will work. Get Ready for a New Season of Gardening -Choose from Tomatoes, Peaches, Corn, Zinnias & More! Roughly 8-10 degrees of third link angle is sufficient to promote antisquat and not hurt your corner entry. These cars were meant to ride down the road nice not be fast on dirt, so you have to redo all of the mounts, change the length of the trailing arms, use hiems and/or rubber bushings or even spring loaded trailing arms to build traction. Metrics can be competitive IF they are permitted to address their four-point rear suspension problems. You can try bigger adjustments if you cant tell much difference in the handling after you make smaller adjustments.
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