From hair trends to relationship advice, our daily newsletter has everything you need to sound like a person whos on TikTok, even if you arent. Sean Caine, an Archdiocese of Baltimore spokesperson, told HuffPost that the church acknowledges that the priest was "credibly accused of sexual abuse of minors. Magnus John Henry, 71, a native of Chauvin, LA, and a resident of Houma, LA, passed away peacefully Friday, February 24, 2023. The nun's former students have since launched their own amateur investigation into who killed her, while also bringing forth allegations of a rampant sexual abuse ring, allegedly led by Father Joseph Maskell and Father Neil Magnus. She said Maskell watched, then also raped her, and that his assaults continued through her high school years. To add a flower, click the Leave a Flower button. I dont remember the mans face, and I have no idea if hes still out there.. To plant Memorial Trees in memory of Neil Magnus, please click here to visit our Sympathy Store. Year should not be greater than current year. They received an overwhelming response. Save to an Ancestry Tree, a virtual cemetery, your clipboard for pasting or Print. There is a problem with your email/password. [4], The Archdiocese of Baltimore sent Maskell for treatment at The Institute of Living, a psychiatric facility in Connecticut, from 1992 to 1993 over allegations of sexual abuse. The two women, both nuns, lived in a modest apartment in Southwest Baltimore, where Cesniks students were welcome to stop by after school or on weekends to confide in the young teacher. While The Keepers doesnt provide a definitive identity for Brother Bob, several potential suspects are explored in the series. He was born to Desmond and Frances (Fanning) McManus. Passed away on the 25th of February 2023 at the age of 100. Helen Russell Phillips was Cesniks roommate at the time of her death, according to The Huffington Post. Like our page to stay informed about passing of a loved one in Mississauga, Ontario on facebook. Franz and his mother came forward in 1967. But who is Father Neil Magnus on The Keepers? It seems as though Magnus went on to become the principal of Towson Catholic High School in Maryland six years before he died in 1988, according to the Church of Immaculate Conception. Season 2 will consist of 7 episodes, that will be released online on Netflix. Which memorial do you think is a duplicate of Edward Magnus (128296495)? What results is a disheartening, suspicious conversation, but nothing thats damning without a police investigation. Bill became a hermit, he did not go to work anymore, stayed in the house, didnt drive his car, didnt see any family or friends, started talking about the woman in the attic. Billy would apparently talk about Cesniks death all the time. Also implicating Ronnie, Billy, and Skippy are Ronnies children, Sharon and Brian Schmidt. It changed our lives. Try again later. You're trash. ", "Did the Catholic Church Get Away with Murder? Maskell was reinstated in 1993 after the Archdiocese claimed it was unable to corroborate the allegation through an internal investigation. Father Joseph Maskell died in 2001. [18] She said: "Fr Maskells employment, working with youngsters for the Irish health board, after he fled a trial for sexual abuse of minors in America, is cause for public concern. The email does not appear to be a valid email address. Netflix's The Keepers explores the potential horror of those living a life of serving realistically living a life inflicting abuse. Which war was fought between British houses of Lancaster and York for the throne of England?. English Baltimore, Maryland The Keepers No. The Archdiocese. [17], In July 2017, the Health Service Executive (HSE) in Ireland opened an investigation into the employment of Maskell. until proven guilty. Browse Portland local obituaries on Legacy.com. To use this feature, use a newer browser. Father Neil Magnus Another of the administrators at Keough, Magnus was accused of participating in sexually abusing students along with Maskell. Try again later. Lawyers representing the Archdiocese were able to have the second lawsuit dropped due to the statute of limitations. In November 1969, she went to the bank to cash her $255 paycheck and then made her way to the Edmondson Village shopping center, where she purchased buns at a bakery but she never returned home. Premiere episode starting in May 13th, 2022.The Keepers Season 2 release date: when will the new episodes arrive? ", As despicable as Maskell's crimes were in their own right, the saga gets even worse. Clipped from. Father Maskell, who was never charged with a crime revolving around the abuse at the Archbishop Keogh High School and denied claims, is one crucial character to the new series. The Church had this to say about allegations against Magnus: "An allegation of abuse against any priest or anyone representing the Church is deeply troubling and sad. This meant residing outside the convent, dressing in civilian clothing instead of habits, and teaching at a local public school instead of Archbishop Keough. After Margaret and Davidson separated, he was arrested for stealing a car and loitering outside the local middle school, trying to pick up middle school girls. Neil is survived by his loving wife, Mavis (Nash) Magnus, of 61 years; Children Kim and Mary Magnus at Gilby, ND; Mark and Joyce Magnus at Northwood, ND; Bruce and Kaye Magnus at Osakis, MN; and Renae and Kevin Mathews at Horace, ND. Our Database of Publicly Accused does not state or imply that individuals Magnus died in 1988 and was never charged with any crimes. According to Wehner, Brother Bob was a violent member of the alleged sex ring, and had to be reined in by Maskell several times. Sendcorrections. You are only allowed to leave one flower per day for any given memorial. Detectives in Baltimore exhumed the grave of a Catholic priest as part of an investigation into a 50-year-old murder case set to be the center of a new Netflix documentary series. [1] He kept a police scanner and a loaded gun in his car.[7]. There are no volunteers for this cemetery. But Margaret remembers that it came out on the news that Sunday that Sister Cesnik had disappeared. Margaret says she remembers the date of Cesniks disappearance November 7 was the night Davidson came home with a bloody shirt. The anonymous woman said that she'd been discussing the rampant abuse at the school with her former teacher when the two priests barged in. There was a problem getting your location. Magnus was the Director of Religious Studies at Keough at the same time Maskell served as the schools chaplain: throughout the late 60s and 70s, though exact dates of his employment there are difficult to find. He often would curl on Mens and Couples teams throughout the years. Please reset your password. based on information from your browser. Arrangements by Ruck Towson Funeral - Home, Inc.baltimore sunpapers nov. 29, 1988courtesy contributor walking back to georgia, Your Scrapbook is currently empty. Since he became ordained as a Pastor, Father Neil experienced racial prejudice which would close some doors but he also used it to fight for change. One night, Barbara says, her then-husband Ronnie came home covered in blood. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. In addition to many nieces and nephews. The amateur detectives at the heart of The Keepers are some of Cesnik's former students and other Keough alums with an interest in seeking justice for their beloved former teacher (including Abbie Schaub, Gemma Hoskins, Teresa Lancaster, and Jean Hargadon Wehner). ", Jean Hargadon Wehner also allegedly sought Magnus' counsel while at Keough to deal with abuse she had suffered as a child. Maskell died in 2001, and until his death, he had denied the allegations. She's also. Documenting the Catholic Sexual Abuse and Financial Crisis Data on bishops, priests, brothers, nuns, Pope Francis, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Documenting the Abuse Crisis in the Roman Catholic Church Established June 2003. abuse that allegedly took place at Archbishop Keough. Admissions of guilt or liability are not typically a part Return tomain database page. And then there was Skippy, who Barbara thinks was Billys lover. Apparently, one night, Barbara was followed by a man in a car dressed in a nun costume, who tried to follow her home. Are you sure that you want to report this flower to administrators as offensive or abusive? (Courtesy of Netflix). You have chosen this person to be their own family member. Wehner alleges Maskell joined in the abuse. Shortly afterwards, she began to retrieve her first memories of priest abuse, starting with Father Neil Magnus, whom she envisioned masturbating while he took her confession. Sharon tells the filmmakers that her father once said to her mother: You want to know why I drink? Police are investigating several suspects in connection with the death of Sister Cathy Cesnik. Add to your scrapbook. Once the murder happened, he became a very tortured soul. However, on September 8, 1993, criminal charges regarding Wehner's allegation were filed through Maryland Deputy Attorney General Ralph S. Tyler III. Prior to accusations of sexual abuse against female students at Keough High School, Maskell was first accused of forcing an altar boy at St. Clement Church, Charles Franz, to drink wine before sexually abusing him. Bustle reached out to a spokesperson for the Archdiocese of Baltimore who employed both men and oversaw Keough High School. He started drinking, doing drugs, acting crazy, Barbara says. In 1969, toward the end of the school year, Wehner allegedly confided about the abuse to Catherine Cesnik, a popular nun among the students. The nun's former students have since launched their own amateur investigation into who killed her, while also bringing forth allegations of a rampant sexual abuse ring, allegedly led by Father Joseph Maskell and Father Neil Magnus. But who is Father Neil Magnus on The Keepers? Please try again later. Rev. [15], He claimed his innocence until his death due to a stroke on May 7, 2001. We put her behind the shop.. Father Onwuemelie will live in residence with the other Spiritans serving Our Lady of the Valley, Hemet. But who is Father Neil Magnus on The Keepers? My father, Neil Krieger, died four weeks ago from COVID-19 complications. There are links to other related articles i.e. Brother Elton Magnus at Petersburg, ND. 'The Bear''s Jeremy Allen White Keeps His Awards In His Kids' Room For A Cute Reason, 'Yellowstone' Prequel '1923' Really Earned Its TV-MA Rating, Martin Short Gave Up Seat On A Plane So Chance The Rapper Could Sit With His Daughter, I'm Happy To Report That Drew Barrymore's Bedroom Also Becomes A Chaotic Mess, What Parents Are Talking About Delivered Straight To Your Inbox, By subscribing to this BDG newsletter, you agree to our. In 1992, the first sexual abuse allegation against Maskell was made public by Wehner. All Rights Reserved. Anthony Joseph Maskell (April 13, 1939 May 7, 2001) was an American Catholic priest who was removed from the ministry because of sexual abuse toward female students at Archbishop Keough High School between 1969 and 1975. Neil was baptized and confirmed at Lom Lutheran Church. With Melanie Lynskey in the Spotlight, You Need to Watch Her Unrelenting Netflix Thriller, 'Scream 4' is Essential Viewing Before You Catch 'Scream 6', 'We Have A Ghost' is a Surprisingly Twisty Family Thriller. Anthony Joseph Maskell was born in Baltimore, Maryland, to Joseph Francis Maskell and Susie Helen Jenkins, and grew up in Northeast Baltimore. Great Grandchildren: Paige Magnus, Blake Magnus, Eliza Aggen, and Davis Aggen. actions are presumed not to be liable for such claims unless a plaintiff St. Joseph High School, 4403 Frederick avenue (21229) will be appreciated by the family. He served the Archdiocese of Baltimore as a counselor from 1965 to 1994. Do Not Sell/Share My Personal Information. Jean Hargadon Wehner also allegedly sought Magnus' counsel, woman alleged Magnus and Maskell had raped her, the principal of Towson Catholic High School. (Maskell denied initial accusations until his death in 2001, and was never charged of a crime. Please check your email and click on the link to activate your account. E. Neil Magnus Ordained: 1963 Status: Accused Died: 11/27/1988 Diocese: Archdiocese of Baltimore MD A woman received "acknowledgment of crimes" and financial assistance for counseling from the archdiocese in 11/16 due to her claims of rape by Magnus and another priest, Rev. County police on Thursday said they unearthed the body of A. Joseph Maskell to compare his DNA with crime scene evidence discovered near the body of Sister Catherine Ann Cesnik in 1970, the Baltimore Sun reported. Failed to report flower. When sent to Our Lady of Victory, he was also assigned the position of chaplain/counselor at the all-girl Keough High School. While much of the abuse allegations revolve around Maskell, Magnus is mentioned in a couple of horrifying allegations himself. Learn more about merges. Maskell denied all accusations until his death in 2001. "[7][8], Teresa Lancaster, another alleged victim at Keough, stated that on Halloween of 1970, Maskell drove her to a popular location where students gathered. Anthony Joseph Maskell (April 13, 1939 - May 7, 2001) was an American Catholic priest who was removed from the ministry because of sexual abuse toward female students at Archbishop Keough High School between 1969 and 1975. Wehner alleges Maskell repeatedly called her a "whore" and forced her to swallow his semen, claiming she was "receiving the Holy Spirit. Being apart of congregations that would eventually close would become a blessing in . True crime is only getting more popular, and Netflix never misses an opportunity to contribute to the zeitgeist, giving us The Keepers. If there were problems in the background check system, these should be discussed and corrected."[18]. Maskell's DNA did not match the forensic profile from 1970, although investigators noted that this did not definitively rule him out as a suspect. A woman received acknowledgment of crimes and financial assistance for counseling from the archdiocese in 11/16 due to her claims of rape by Magnus and another priest, Rev. When Maskell asked Brother Bob if hed taken care of everything, Brother Bob assured him that Wehner would remain silent, after he had reportedly raped her again. Calendar of Events. Both men have been implicated in the unsolved 1969 murder of Sr. Cathy Cesnik, to whom girls had confided abuse. Grandchildren: Corey Magnus, Callie Magnus, Carly Magnus, Matthew and Laura Magnus, Tracy Magnus, Vanessa and Michael Aggen, Aaron Magnus, Sadie Mathews, Erika Mathews, and Ryan Mathews. Sexual abuse allegations against Maskell began to emerge in the 1990s he worked as a chaplain and guidance counselor at Archbishop Keough in the '60s and '70s. Learn about how to make the most of a memorial. At one point, Wehner claims Brother Bob confessed to killing Cesnik after shed confronted Maskell about the abuse going on at the school. He attended Petersburg High School.Neil worked on the railroad and at the Petersburg Elevator prior to meeting his bride Mavis Nash. Please enter your email address and we will send you an email with a reset password code. What Happened to Father Neil Magnus: "The Keepers' Priest Went on to Serve at Another School, By Alaina Urquhart-White Maybe he thought I knew too much.. Months after Cesniks death, Billy tried to commit suicide five times before doing so on the sixth, taking 49 sleeping pills and chasing it with alcohol. Sorry! He was one of many accused of taking part in the abuse of the students, alongside unnamed officers from the Baltimore police force and Dr. Christian Richter, a gynecologist Maskell took the girls to (Richter denied his involvement in the abuse, though he admitted Maskell would be in the room during exams). Baltimore Business Journal is reporting that Baltimore-based MRP is behind the development of this 34.15 acre property, though MRP declined to comment. ", "Timeline: The Sister Catherine Cesnik Case", "Buried in Baltimore: The Mysterious Murder of a Nun Who Knew Too Much", "Bishop Malooly responds to "The Keepers", "HSE investigates activities of US priest featured in Netflix series", "Priest in nun murder documentary worked in Wexford as psychologist", "Priest's DNA does not match profile from slain nun", "No end in sight for HSE investigation into 'Netflix priest', https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joseph_Maskell&oldid=1127128794, St. Mary's Seminary and University alumni, Catholic Church sexual abuse scandals in the United States, 20th-century American Roman Catholic priests, Pages using infobox person with multiple parents, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 13 December 2022, at 01:33. But, what happened to Father Neil Magnus? According to theBaltimore Sun,Maskell denied the accusationsuntil his death in 2001. Starting in the '90s, several Keough alumnae have come forward with horrific stories of abuse at the hands of Maskell, Father Neil Magnus, several police officers, a gynecologist, and other men. Two police officers arrived and directed other students to leave, then raped Lancaster while Maskell waited outside the car.[9]. But its Brian that has the story that sounds damning: But, despite anecdotal evidence, none of that is enough to implicate the men. Did Father Neil Magnus kill Sister Cathy? Almost 50 years ago, a Baltimore nun named Sister Catherine Cesnik was found choked and beaten to death two months after her mysterious disappearance. Netflix's newest original docuseries, The Keepers, focuses on the brutal and mysterious murder of a young nun who taught at a Catholic high school in Baltimore. 2023 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. And, according to the documentary, many who knew her over the years tiptoed around the subject with her, hoping she would say something eventually, but we never hear from the nun in episodes 6 and 7 of The Keepers, it is revealed that Sister Russell died of cancer. He served with Father Joseph Maskell, who was the chaplain of the school at this time. Try to stay away from him.". This account already exists, but the email address still needs to be confirmed. Because I killed a woman. Father Magnus will Lie in state at St. Joseph (Fullerton) Catholic Church, 8420 Belair road on Tuesday from 2 to 9 P.M. where a Christian Wake Service will be held at 8:30 P.M.. I think hes really a casualty of the times. Share this memorial using social media sites or email. May the Lord bring peace to Neil and his family. GREAT NEWS! On June 25, 1996, Ferns Diocese, after requesting information from Baltimore regarding Maskell, was informed that he was placed on leave following accusations of sexual abuse and that his whereabouts were unknown to the Archdiocese. The Archdiocese of Baltimore acknowledged the allegations against Maskell in a statement to Bustle: It is important to note that none of the accusations were brought to light before Magnus died. Passed away on February 19, 2023 in Lachine at age 89. On archdioceses list 12/14/18. He served the Archdiocese of Baltimore as a counselor from 1965 to 1994. postingpolicy. The docu-series presents people in Cesnik's life that may have had something to do with her death, leading viewers to wonder: Did Father Neil Magnus kill Sister Cathy? There was an error deleting this problem. Please ensure you have given Find a Grave permission to access your location in your browser settings. The Congregation of the Holy Spirit is the founding community of . Thanks for using Find a Grave, if you have any feedback we would love to hear from you. He attended Petersburg High School. He said, By the time they find her body, its going to be winter time; shes going to be buried under the snow.. When did Archbishop Keough High School open? Cesnik was employed as a teacher at Keough before her death (though she'd left to work at another high school in the months before her murder), according to The Huffington Post. He served with Father Joseph Maskell, who was the chaplain of the school at this time. We have set your language to You can always change this later in your Account settings. Neil was baptized and confirmed at Lom Lutheran Church. Wehner says she has entirely repressed the memory of Brother Bobs face, though he raped her repeatedly. Search above to list available cemeteries. Are you sure that you want to remove this flower? By subscribing to this BDG newsletter, you agree to our. Sadly, Mike Wehner died in 2007, and his obituary in The Baltimore Sun calls him the beloved husband of Jean and father of their three children, Gregory, Matthew, and Sarah. But hopefully, Cesnik's death will be resolved once and for all, to at least bring some measure of peace to the abuse survivors and to Cesnik's living family members. The next year, instead of charging or removing Maskell from the ministry, the Archdiocese of Baltimore simply removed him from St. Clement and sent him to a neighboring parish, Our Lady of Victory. Throughout the series, Jean Hargadon Wehner, a former student at the school where Maskell worked, and several other potential victims, describe years of manipulation, sexual abuse, and rape that they experienced under Maskells control. List of Priests and Brothers Accused of Child Sexual Abuse - Archdiocese of Baltimore. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/128296495/edward-neil-magnus. There have been calls for the women who uncovered his years of abuse to be recognised as TIMEs The Silence Breakers Person of the Year winners. Barbara says she finds it an odd coincidence that Cesniks body was found by the Schmidt family home and by the family business, halfway between the two in the woods. After graduating from Calvert Hall College High School, Maskell went to St. Mary's Seminary in Roland Park for priesthood training. Neil came to the US where he made a career in the . The Baltimore Sun. Although his DNA did not match, he was not formally ruled out as a suspect.[11]. Neil was a resident of Fargo, North Dakota at the time of passing. In 2016 the Archdiocese of Baltimore confirmed that settlements had been paid to past students of the school who were sexually abused by Father Joseph Maskell, a priest and counsellor at the school from 1967 to 1975. I waited until the next day, and I brought it up to her in the kitchen and she looked at me, panicked, and said, I never said that. I didnt hear anything else about it for years.. Netflix's new series The Keepers (which is already being compared to Making a Murderer) follows the amateur investigation led by Cesnik's former students and involves the question of whether her murder was tied to a rampant clergy sexual abuse scandal at the Catholic school where she worked. Rolling Stone (where Sharon May gets roasted in the comments section) within the Bustle link above. [1] Maskell was transferred to the Division of Schools from 1975 to 1980, and served at Annunciation from 1980 to 1982. Use Escape keyboard button or the Close button to close the carousel. Seton Keough High School Address Website www.setonkeough.com. Sister Cesnik had been reported as a missing person on November 7, 1969, from her residence at the Carriage House Apartments in Baltimore City, 21229. Please contact Find a Grave at [emailprotected] if you need help resetting your password. Eventually, Billy moved home because he was so distraught. However, Maskell continued to practice psychology. She would talk to him. All photos appear on this tab and here you can update the sort order of photos on memorials you manage. Beloved daughter of the late Agnes Rafter and the late Michael Byrne. We feel shame and regret for anyone victimized and offer them our sincere prayers and support. The doc makers actually got the chance to interview Davidson, but he seemed too senile to be a reliable source, becoming easily confused and taking long pauses. Who Receive obituaries Rejane Masse Hed say she was after him, that she was chasing him, Barbara says. The Archdiocese has reached dozens of settlements with those claiming abuse and removed him from the ministry in 1994. That necklace is suspected to be the same necklace Cesnik was out buying for her sister and future brother-in-law as an engagement gift on the night of her disappearance. The Archdiocese of Baltimore sent Maskell for treatment at The Institute of Living, a psychiatric facility in Connecticut, from 1992 to 1993 over allegations of sexual abuse. During CYO dances, Maskell frequently left a BCPD auxiliary officer to act as security while he went on ride-alongs with other BCPD officers. Quick Answer: How To Stretch Adductor Magnus, Quick Answer: The Red Tent How Did Dinahs Father Die, Question: What Happens To The Father In Bicycle Thieves, Question: What Does Father Brown Call His Bicycle, Do Mothers Or Father Bike More With Their Kids, Quick Answer: War Of The Worlds How Did The Aliens Die, Question: War Of The Worlds Why Did The Aliens Die, Does The Host Cell Die In The Lytic Cycle. Just like with Bill. proves otherwise. Cemetery Name Saint John the Evangelist Catholic Cemetery Cemetery Address Police are investigating several suspects in connection with the death of Sister Cathy Cesnik. Allen Muneer (Mo) Hamdon passed away peacefully at home on February 9, 2023 at the age of 96 surrounded by his children. Magnus died in 1988 before Wehner ever came forward with her allegations. 29 Nov 1988, Tue . Find service information, send flowers, and leave memories and thoughts in the Guestbook for your loved one. Rev. [16] Though never formally charged, the Archdiocese of Baltimore had settled with sixteen of Maskell's possible victims for a total of $472,000. The lawsuit was dropped after the court rejected repressed memories as a scientifically proven memory mechanism. A third unnamed woman alleged Magnus and Maskell had raped her during a Catholic Youth Organization picnic during her freshman year at Keough after possibly drugging her drink. ", Rolling Stonereports thatMagnus was the Director of Religious Studiesat Keough Catholic High School throughout the late '60s and '70s. So, he went on to lead a normal life following the alleged abuse and there is relatively little information about him online. [12] In 1994, another lawsuit was filed by Wehner, this time with Lancaster and four others, included allegations against gynecologist Christian Richter, who engaged in abuse with Maskell. Thanks for your help! His name was Father Neil Magnus. The school closed in June 2017. As she claims in The Keepers, Wehner's alleged abuse at Archbishop Keough High School started when she went to confession with Father Neil Magnus. That guy Skippy. Netflix in April announced a seven-part series called "The Keepers" set to explore theories that Cesnik was killed because she had knowledge on the abuse committed by Maskell. Another figure who could be Brother Bob is Maskells longtime friend, another priest named Reverend Robert G. Hawkins, who sheltered Maskell in his own church after he was accused of child molestation, until he was shipped off to another Catholic parish in Ireland. A memorial service will be held in his honor on Thursday, March 2 . She was wrong. Neil and Mavis farmed including beef cattle, dairy cattle, sheep, dogs, and a love of horses. [1][5] He was finally sent to St. Augustine Roman Catholic Church in Elkridge as a pastor from 1993 to 1994, before being "prohibited" from the ministry after further abuse allegations surfaced in 1994. Supposedly, after the nun died, Ronnie changed. She found a mannequin dressed in a nuns habit and dress. (Maskell denied initial accusations until his death in 2001, and was never charged with a crime.). The Netflix documentary series The Keepers alleges Maskell's involvement in the murder of Catherine Cesnik in 1969, after a former Keough student and abuse victim, Jean Hargadon Wehner, claimed he showed her Cesnik's body to threaten Wehner into silence. Years later, Davidsons first wife, only called Margaret in the documentary, got a hold of Yohn on Facebook and revealed her version of the story. E. Neil Magnus Memorial Scholarship Fund C/ 0 Mt. Upon further prompting, Davidson admits with a nod that, yes, back in the day when he could drive, he drove with two feet. FUNERAL. Maskell fled to Co Wexford as late as 1995, after documents he had buried in a graveyard relating to his alleged crimes including psychological profiles of victims were uncovered. Several other men are described as being involved in Maskells sex ring, including Keoughs director of religious services, Father Neil Magnus, and several men who were referred to with pseudonyms, like Brother Bob..
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